no effin way that article is real... it's got to be something plagiarized from the 1959 World Book. So I guess the world needs us, the library bloggers to let them know about the true library puppet shows, the one-finger kind.

Every other library blog is talking about that article. And saying the same things (except for the ignorant stereotype about people "down in Dixe"). Can we get some original content?

Their "Day in the Life" is insane. As one of the masochists who decided to work at a public library, I am appalled that they obviously did not talk to a real public librarian. I mean, where is the time spent rebuilding toilets and repairing ductwork? Where do they mention all the photocopies of creepy handwritten letters to senators? Absolute crap. And if library school were meant to be worthwhile they would have taught plumbing and small engine repair.

Don't forget copier and printer repair and upkeep. In job descriptions, sometimes you see the qualifier that you must be able to lift 100 pounds over your head for ten minutes (or some such standard) but I have yet to see the job posting that states that you have to be adapt a unclogging a printer and willing to ruing a $50 shirt with toner.<br><br>Plus, cleaver interrogator? I just try to get the person from telling me his complete life story so that I can determine that he wants to know what the population of Uzbekistan was in 1940. Not that I don't want to hear how his cat has a glandular problem, but, I have patrons at the desk, people on the phone, e-mails stacking up, and a cart of books that need to be cataloged. The joys of working in a small library.

Why would you pay $50 for a shirt to work in a library? You can get an excellent shirt at Target for $20.

I have to wear special orthopedic shirts. I have a condition from lifting 100 pounds over my head for ten minutes.

I think, after reading this blog for a few months now I can say that you, Annoyed Librarian, are one of the most pomous as%holes I've never met.

Is there one thing about our profession that you like" Or, do you just write anything that will elicit some kind of response from your readers? If the latter, maybe you can get funding from the National Endowment for the Arts since most of the sh*t they call art manages to elicit responses too but the "art" still sucks.

someday you folks on the two left coasts are going to find out that "flyover" country is where it's at.

Beinf from flyover country i think it's great that I don't don't need a 100K salary to live comfortably.

Pompous is in the eye of the beholder. Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.

How about the part where you call the cops because the kids don't leave but instead start writing on your walls?

Or the part where people volunteer to be a librarian? Because you don't need any specialist training. Or deserve to be paid.

Or the part where people expect you to write their resumes for them?

Or cleaning up the huge messes that *everyone* leaves behind?

Or the part where you get to be a babysitter because library=free daycare?

On the other hand, before the economy imploded and we implemented a hiring freeze, we were *always* hiring librarians. We must be the system where ALA gets all of their librarian shortage data from.

So, all you librarians who don't like your jobs, why don't you do something else?

<br><BR>We don't hate you because you are beautiful.<br><br>We hate the real, inner you.

Librarians who don't like their jobs don't do other things because there's nothing else they're capable of doing.

AL, Hokey Pokey said you were pomous, not pompous. Using my hi-tech information sleuth skills I found this definition of pomous "Displaying pomp; stately; showy with grandeur; magnificent." Your minions certainly embrace the magnificent part.

Hokey Pokey - if you are going to swear, then swear. Using % and * to replace letters makes you look like a twit.

<em>So, all you librarians who don't like your jobs, why don't you do something else?</em>
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If we were qualified to do anything else, we never would have become librarians in the first place. So you see, we're kind of trapped.

<i>The ALA-accredited MLS is just a burdensome barrier those of us who have made it use to make it harder for those of you who haven't to enter the profession. There has to be some barrier, or we wouldn't know where to begin when tossing out the job applications.</i>
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ftw.
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Had I known when I left my old library post that I wouldn't walk through the employee entrance again until I had my MLS, I would have listlessly limped through some fluffy online program or something just to get started up that ladder in a putrid $25K cataloging post that didn't even need a Masters to do 5-10 years ago.

Someone said I had the perfect job the other day. People say that to me occasionally. I tend to think I have it good. Although, a friend of mine says he can listen to headphones at work, and I thought that had to be the best job ever. But I guess my and U.S. News & World Report criterion isn't the same.

Please don't disappoint me! I'm thinking about library school. But then, spill it out, give me all the nitty-gritty, down and dirty! Oooh, yeah, baby, give it to meeeeee!

AL, after having read your blog now all these years, I still appreciate the way you're able to elicit the hilarious reactions from other librarians of whom you so deliciously disgust. I like your posts, but I really like the librarians who take you so seriously even better.<br><br>Thanks to all you silly, silly librarians out there for all the fun, trite to be sure, but fun nonetheless you provide me and my collegues. It's a nice break when the drudgery of dealing with the public gets to be too much.

You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little f*cked up maybe, but I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to f*ckin' amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?

You're funny in a funny bone kinda way. You know what I'm saying?

I'm still puzzled why some librarians get so worked up. I just call 'em like I see 'em.

Can you be more specific?

LOL - this post (like many before it) is funny. Funny because it's true. I keep seeing the misinformation that there aren't enough candidates to fill library jobs, but the poor saps that are my collegues that go into library school to get an MLIS to fill those jobs are waking up to a harsh reality - namely no jobs, and if there are jobs they pay poorly.

I got a Ph.D. in history from a rigorous program before I went to library school. Yes, many of the library school assignments were trite, pointless, or lacking in substance. I rewrote the assignments myself to be more rigorous and then completed the work and turned in the result instead of the something stupid. A few of my more serious colleagues did this as well. As a result I actually did learn something in library school. Most of the professors were supportive of this approach. The ones that weren't were too scared to challenge me (or at least that's why I presumed they didn't challenge me.)

Like AL, I found it easy to shine. I got a great academic library job that is intellectually challenging and rewarding. I'll also admit that as a straight guy I've enjoyed another perk of library jobs: being surrounded by attractive, intelligent, interesting women. (Yeah, yeah, I know there will be people who will complain that most women in the library field aren't attractive, but that doesn't matter. The male-to-female ratio is so much in the guys' favor that even if just a handful of female librarians are attractive a straight guy who can show he's not a wimp but also not $exist will always enjoy pleasant company of the opposite $ex. Besides, beauty's in the eye of the beholder.)

The M.L.S. and M.L.I.S. can be made into a credible graduate degree, but it will take professors with guts to establish and enforce rigorous standards and students who are willing to work to meet them.

Instead of complaining we should get to work and create those standards. In that vein, I'm going to go do something substantive now. But reading a little AL satire and writing a response adds a little more variety to my day - so thanks.

Have fun kids.

So they are finding this reality AFTER they get out of library school. So who's fault is that? Take responsibility for your own poor decisions people!

<em>Besides, beauty's in the eye of the beholder.</em>
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So in other words, you have low standards.

I actually do like my job (despite my bitching about aspects of it).

It pays me about as much as I feel like working.

I get to mess around on the Intertubes asmuch as I want under the guise of 'research'

I can easily keep up with my favorite authors and, on a good day, can sit there talking about them under the guise 'Reader's Advisory'.

Now if I could just figure out a way to not work nights and weekends, I'd be stoked!

You're right on about the librarian shortage. Where is this supposed shortage? From where I sit in the middle of the country, competition is fierce for jobs. I only object to this statement because of the assumption that most librarians are women, straight and married:
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Correction: most librarians are women, straight and harried.

<BR><BR>This should be corrected a bit, there is a shortage of <b><big>COMPETENT</B></big> librarians.<br><br>What we have is a surplus of jokers who have a useless undergrad degree, an MLS, and the personality of lukewarm oatmeal.

"So in other words, you have low standards."

No librarydude, I have high standards and a hot girlfriend (also a librarian) who meets them. Saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is a nice way of saying I don't get bent out of shape or really care if other peoples' standards are lower and/or differ from mine. Whatever floats one's boat, to use another idiom.

If you're a guy in the library field and can't get a hot, intelligent librarian girlfriend the problem is likely with you or your attitude, not with the selection of women. Look at your odds, dude.

In library land, the ratio of women to men is 10 to 2. But 9 of those women are untouchable, so that means the real ratio is 1 to 2. Those aren't great odds for most men (although more than enough in my case).

I read in one of the comments that the MLIS curriculum needs to be reworked to be more rigorous. I agree. Library schools shouldn't try to shoehorn other disciplines into the MLIS (such as management, IT, and so on) because in the end MLIS graduates end up being master of no trades. The MLIS is 10 to 12 courses long, how much can you really cover if you try to do 10 things at once?

Modest recommendation for MLIS programs:
1. Forget about management - hire management professionals experienced in public finances.
2. Forget about the nitty-gritty IT - hire IT people who know what they are doing.
3. Forget about Archives - Hire Archivists whose whole academic experience is Archives and they can worry about that.

What should you focus on?
1. Serious Information Organization
2. Serious heavy duty meta-data and organizational schemas
3. Serious References & Info retrieval
4. Serious Cataloguing - when you graduate you should be able to catalog anything without blinking
5. Information Architecture

It's the information profession - act like it

AL pretends to have his, er, her own personal bartender and *decent-looking straight guy* pretends to be an overs*xed PhD surrounded by the world's only all-hot library staff. It's nice that everyone has their own schtick/delusions, these days.

<BR><BR><b><i><small>"1. Forget about management - hire management professionals experienced in public finances. <br><br>2. Forget about the nitty-gritty IT - hire IT people who know what they are doing. </b></i></small><br><br><hr><br><br>1. You haven't met my incompetent "MBA by mail" manager.<br><br>2. You haven't met my IT people who have never seen a book in their life or dealt with the public.

Rico Suave. Just like there are incompetent information professionals, so do incompetent IT and management professionals exist. That's why you don't hire anyone off the street. Also, just because there are incompetent managers/IT guys, doesn't mean that the MLIS should be weighed down with subject matter that does an information professional no good. As I said - master of no trade.

Hey McToady: Where did that post say anything about an "all-hot library staff?" From the guy's perspective, the staff doesn't have to be "all-hot" for there to be enough female hotties to go around. Also, I disagree with library-dude's calculation of the odds.

somebody, the librarydude was just trying to being funny. He's always cracking jokes on this blog.

<br><br>So, forget about hiring anyone who knows libraries, just get bottom line people in there and start the heads rolling.<br><br>Sweet.

The comments on female librarians' looks are pretty amusing considering what most male librarians look like. As for library school, why does anyone bother anymore when you can get hired for the better paying library jobs without an MLS.

AL, one thing the article failed to mention is the perk that got me interested in the library field the most and, that is, being a librarian did not impede on my drug habit. I was able to continue unabated without it affecting my performance or attendance on my job. In fact, it had a paradoxical affect: the more I partied the better I faired at work. Strange, but there have been stranger things.

Rico Suave - you're beyond help. You've got your blinders on.
What I've been trying to get through is that the little piece of paper does not matter. the MLIS doesn't matter. the MBA doesn't matter. What does matter is skilled people, who know the public sector, who know information organization, who know finances, who can get the job done. You don't NEED someone with an MLIS to run a library because in the end they may not have the appropriate skill set. Your hiring decisions should be based on skills, not a piece of sheepskin (or whatever they use today for diplomas).
Is it bottom line? yes it is. libraries won't survive if they don't provide services to the public and they squander the public's money.

So that last comment about drug use was totally irrelevant. Let's see if it gets removed. Probably not, because it doesn't disagree with the moderator.

Hey, first, hasn't anyone trained you not to fish in the company pond? Oh wait! I am talking about library school trained professionals. As far as the shortage goes I disagree a little bit. Compared to other fields we do pretty good. I see about 7 library jobs for every journalist job. (I date writers much more interesting then librarians so she can catch my grammar issues) The problem is the jobs are either not the one people want or they are where people do not want to work. Thanks to where I work, if they past the librarian bill, next year, I ll get my money back for library school, and have an MLIS. Cant beat that. If you do not like your job retool and get another.

Library Cynic, I was being metaphorical. Do I need to define that for you?

Library Cynic, you amuse me with your comment about other comments being irrelevant. I don't think you've ever posted a comment of any relevance to any post on this blog. You're a one trick pony, and it isn't even a very good trick. "Censorship! Censorship! The whole world is against me!" You obviously see what you believe rather than believe what you see, because there are comments critical of the AL scattered across this blog going back for years. The very fact that your irrelevant, whiny comments are still up disproves your argument.

Obviously leaving my comments up disproves my argument. That's why the AL does it. She thinks it makes me look stupid.

That last post was by an imposter. I don't need the Annoyed Librarian to make me look stupid.

That last post was made by an imposter.

And so was the one before that.

That last post was made by an imposter.

I think someone might have forgotten to take his meds. There are plenty of good jobs in this profession. I know, because I have one, and so do a lot of my friends. The pay and working conditions are fine and the work, while sometimes dull, can also be enjoyable and occasionally even stimulating. Are those the norm for library jobs? I don't know.

I am the librarian formerly known as "Library Cynic," but some imposter has stolen my identity. From now on you will know that anyone posting as "Library Cynic" is NOT me.

But we don't know who you are anyway so what's your point?

I just got a call from Library Cynic. He told me that the person posting as Cynical Librarian, purporting to be Library Cynic, is an imposter.

That Library Cynic who called you is the imposter. I don't know why I bother. My comment will probably be censored.

I do have a serious question here. Why is the word $ex blocked from postings, unless we dummy it up? Give me a break!

Because the blogging apparatus at LJ is inferior. Supposedly it will change next year. I don't think they were prepared for a blog with a lot of comments.

Other things they don't tell you about: the 6-foot teenager who swings a chair at you; smoke bombs in the YA room; a kit for shooting up, complete with a tied off and needles left near the computers; the constant risk of being exposed to TB.

And this from today's American Libraries Direct:

"...The magazine seems to think the median salary has slipped: Last year, it claimed it was $51,400; this year, it shows as $47,400. The ALA–Allied Professional Association reports the 2008 median is $53,521."

Who do you believe? Jennifer Grady or U.S. News? Hmmmm.

Are we supposed to know who Jennifer Grady is?

Jennifer Grady works for the ALA-APA, i.e., the American Library Association - Allied Professional Association. There are some posts on the old blog about the ALA-APA and their shenanigans.

I like my job, but I truly don't know why. It seems to be in spite of abundant evidence that I should run away.

You're just like all the rest of us. You don't have any better alternatives.

Why do librarians seem to dislike their job, library school, and the mighty ALA? Maybe it's just the devotees of the AL, I dunno.

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It can't possibly be true that all library schools are bad. What about UCLA? Even if the program sucks (and I don't think it does) one can still have respect for getting a grad degree from this uni. Pray tell, is library school a waste of time? I know getting an MLIS will let me rub elbows with other librarians and learn their secret handshake, but is it a fullfilling degree?

Why do librarians seem to dislike their job, library school, and the mighty ALA? Maybe it's just the devotees of the AL, <Br> <br>

Some schools are better than others, but it also depends on how much you put into it. The 10 or 12 classes comment really surprised me since my degree required more than double that. Also, those librarians who enjoy their jobs, found school to at least have some value left this blog early on. So you're left with those who mostly agree with AL, and who like to complain a lot. I think that AL once said that giving anonymous librarians a chance to complain was part of the purpose of the blog.

Thanks, Anon. Yeah, I know this is not the best place to be inspired or motivated to become a librarian. I confess, I come here for $hitz and giggles and not necessarily for its highbrow content. Ha! I kid. It's good for getting a dose of reality, I guess.

I come here to blow off steam. This isn't a bad profession, and I don't think the AL thinks it is. But sometimes it's nice not to have to pretend I'm the erstwhile defender of intellectual freedom or the clever interrogator of the clueless public. I'm just a person who gets frustrated with her job like anyone else.

Well, dork, it depends on which reality you mean. Most of the people I know professionally like what they do. Their reality is not AL's, nor are they the perky people AL hates. I knew about it but I never read this blog when I was in school or job hunting because I knew it would be discouraging. Now as a late night laugh, I've discovered it can be fun.

Okay, I narrowed down my options. It's either a Porsche or library school.

In my country we work for ~$9-10000 (yes this is ANNUAL). Want to talk about pocket money? :P

May have to work nights and weekends? Well it's probably mandatory in places!

<i>Why do librarians seem to dislike their job, library school, and the mighty ALA? Maybe it's just the devotees of the AL, I dunno.</i>
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Different generations, perhaps? For any fresh blood coming into the sector, they're reading that there is this supposed boomer bubble ready to burst with jobs a'plenty to follow. So they go into school, pick up their certification, and the best they get coming out is something that requires them sitting at a computer all day long for something far below the median salary mark that the ALA or USNews reports. Those are the folk that sit there feeling superior to their seniors and try to drum up some rationale as to why the sector isn't right or needs something only youth can provide. <cough><cough>Meredith Farkas<cough><cough>.
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Library school wouldn't take the kind of flack it did if the lack of cohesion in the curriculum didn't reek of seeking Allan Bloom's favor after having read <i>Closing of the American Mind</i>.
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I loved my job. I just wish I would have known that without the MLS, I wasn't going to pick up another library job outside of the places I had already worked. But, hey, that's the err of youth, I suppose.

<em>I just wish I would have known that without the MLS, I wasn't going to pick up another library job outside of the places I had already worked.</em>
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If you couldn't find this information on your own, then you probably shouldn't be in the information field.

"What can anyone say about this paragraph but, "yuck"?" It doesn't take a Forensic Scientist to see ALA's fingerprints all over this. This one deserves the Jayson Blair Award, for original thinking, too. I'd suggest someone write them a letter and question the information. The peppy language is the give away. It's strictly East Huron.
Picture some credulous reporter madly transcribing the revelations. Hey, it beats the old job of writing obits for the SUN-TIMES. You know, I've seen variations of this floated via the media for the last 30 years. I'll bet we all have seen a version of this at some point, unless we're really new. Jeez.....
These people make Bernie Madoff look like an amateur. What a crock....

P.S. ALL PREVIOUS LIBRARY CYNIC POSTS ARE BY AN IMPOSTOR, FOR THIS THREAD.

"The M.L.S. and M.L.I.S. can be made into a credible graduate degree, but it will take professors with guts to establish and enforce rigorous standards and students who are willing to work to meet them. Instead of complaining we should get to work and create those standards. In that vein, I'm going to go do something substantive now."
Please clue us in when you do. It'll be the intellecual equivalent of cleaning the Augean Stables. First of all you have fluff pieces like this being circulated via the media. That's just openers. Well, look at where ALA decided to have its HQ. The Home of Mayor Daley and Gov. Blago. Must be something in the water. ALA needs to move to Peoria.

Beware of impostors. Ignore any previous posts. Only accept the one and true cynic.

How can you change the inner organs of the beast if the beast is still alive and kicking? If you revamp library school to a serious Master's programs, gradu schools would ahve to reduce their recruits by 90% so they could actually provide the grad school experience to those serious about library science. To carry these grad students there will need to be a large body of undergraduate Libary science majors seeking a BLIS.
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This will make more work for the current MLIS staff; are you kidding? And do you really think students want to spend more time in school? And who on earth is going to get a BA in Library Science these days?
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I completed my MLIS in 15 months. 12 classes go by so quick. they tell you that you can only take 3 at a time, but I found out they were so easy I could take 4 at a time and then take three during the summer session. Done.
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And that's the way to go, really; you're not going to change much one way or another. If you are one of them [an ALA sock puppet candidate], you are already one of them and you have been since birth. You may not be intelligent, but you are likeable and gullible and yes, you will get a nice cushy job.
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If you're against the grain you're file 13. If you're pushing to revamp the MLIS, then you are already against the grain. As far as they see it, MLIS library world is already perfect, so why change it?

The time has come to close down all physical library schools and do all the teaching via the Internets.

The physical space will always be necessary so that the library school "

The physical space will always be necessary so that the library school "professors" have somewhere to store their books from the 70's.

And this is why special librarianship rocks! But, please, don't choke on your bitterness too much. The public still needs you!

The Public be damned.

I recently conducted a workshop for a children's literature class at a local community college. I always begin the workshop discussing how the library is run and the educational requirements for different positions. A few days later I received letters from the students, most thanking me for my time. The last, unsigned, letter contained a gem: "I didn't know liberrians needed special training or degrees. I just thought it was something for untrained and uneducated housewives who had no job skills." Many times I have had patrons remark, "I didn't know you had to have a graduate degree for your job!" but that "untrained and uneducated housewives" comment was the bomb!

My coworkers and I have repeatedly stated that library school ought to offer a class called "Real Life Librarianship" which addresses things like, "Quick! A homeless man has locked himself in the men's room and refuses to come out unless he@* freezes over. Meanwhile the women's room bathroom is flooded and someone has stolen the knobs for the fawcets. Meanwhile the library assistants' union is suing you for unsafe working conditions due to the hostile homeless man in the bathroom and puddle created by the women's room flooding. What do you do?"

I would close my office door and let nature take its course.

I would again question why I ever decided to work in a public library.

LOL @ Libberian. If that's what Libberians do (homeless takeovers, bad patron BO complains, where's the bathroom questions, plumbing emergencies) then you don't need an MS or even a BS for that.

Librarianism IS going to die out. As Mr. Kat mentioned - the curriculum needs to be reworked. People won't sign up for BLIS degrees to be librarians. They will sign up for BS degrees in information science (information organization, preservation, and so on) because those ARE skills transfarable to other jobs. "Librarianism" on the other hand is not.

Because it is NEVER dull! Plus there are job skills I now possess due to my public library career that I never would have obtained if I had followed my original career path. And let's face it, the work stories alone are worth it! OK, maybe making a living wage would be worth it...But still!

Mr Kat you have two choices:

1. leave the library field and take your whiny and negative attitude to another profession.

2. do something, besides whining on a blog, about the shortcomings you see in the public library and public librarianship

For many of us, being a librarian is a line of work that we are proud to be affiliated with. If you don't get that same feeling, find another line of work.

Mr. Kat doesn't even work in a library, public or other. He said he didn't at an earlier time.

Great column! The majority of librarians are indeed nerdy and weird - even frightening so. I almost dropped out of the ALA approved library school I attended because most (but certainly not all) of my fellow graduate students where amazingly bizarre - like creatures out of TV series about caricatures of librarians. But I made it, and love being a high school librarian! (I earned my teaching license AFTER earning my MLIS degree in the early 1990s). There was, however, a woman in her early 30s who was a mountain climber, weight lifter, river runner, jogger, etc. Very pretty and very smart. A man about my age (forty at the time) had worked in a slaughterhouse for almost twenty years (five of those years on the kill floor). He was interesting, too. And then there was an Iraqi who had a position as head academic librarian at a university in Mosul waiting for him. Then there was me, middle aged, who finally entered library grad school after working outdoor jobs for almost twenty years (wildland firefighter, helitack crew chief, land surveyor, timber cruiser, chainsaw crew foreman, trail maintenance slave in the Grand Canyon, etc. Maybe I was the weirdest one of all! But it all worked out in the end! PS: Public libraries are great places to pick up good looking and intelligent women ... but I wouldn't want to work in a public library (I did for awhile ... crazy!) PS#2: There are jobs for librarians on our nation's Indian Reservations (my first real librarian job was on the Navajo Reservation, and I was hired over the phone)but of course nerdy librarians don't want to leave their greasy big cities or homey little midwestern towns. You have go where the jobs are, bibliofreaks!

I think we can agree on one fundamental truth: Librarians have plenty of free time on their hands to rant and rave and write comment after comment on a post written by a *team* of bloggers that is primarily a piece of satire.

Why the hate for Mr. Kat? Maybe he is trying to make the library-world a better place in his own way. Quit with the love it or leave it attitude bibliofreaks

I don't mind the hate. In fact I expect it from a group of people with such low standards (and low self esteem apparently) that they are willing to work in public libraries.

""The majority of librarians are indeed nerdy and weird - even frightening so. I almost dropped out of the ALA approved library school I attended because most (but certainly not all) of my fellow graduate students where amazingly bizarre - like creatures out of TV series about caricatures of librarians."Can't you tell it from reading these posts?!? Do a Google search under "Library Indecent" and catch the story about the library director in Mass. who has been having some legal problems. I'm pretty sure you won't read about that in AL, the magazine, not the blog. I recall a fellow who was a klepto, with an arrest record prior to entering LS. The LS collection had books on library security that started disappearing at an alarming rate. A friend in the dorm asked me how he got into the program in the first place. Money talks, I guess.

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Umm...I don't love the hate. I really don't pay attention to hate because it won't make a differnece one way or another.
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Mithrander, never underestimate the power of one small voice no matter where it is spoken. I may not change much or anything at all here, but my voice may be all that is necessary to get someone else rolling.
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the longer we discuss it, the closer we get to a solution, we hope!!
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I don't work in a Library; this is true. I volunteer in one. With the wage they were paying me I was already practically volunteering, and to make matters worse $the wage they could actually afford to pay me was much less than that paltry figure. Accepting this money was morally disconcerting, so I told them to cut the nonsense and I'd do it without the financial burden. I volunteer and have done so for the last year and three months now.<br>
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Robogod, thanks for the tip - I may need it someday if this economy gets much worse.
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I do not mean to talk down public libraries; I simply see the job as number one on the Endangered Species list. Once this MLIS farce is discovered, public librarins will be in trouble.

"Well isn't it Obvious? He stole the credentials.

Only thing dumber than working in a public library is working in one for free.

The only thing dumber then working for free in a public library is working in a public librarian and NOT thinking you're working for free!!! ;)
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I don't work. I volunteer. Drastic difference. Volunteering is like a hobby; you do it when you want, how you want, and go home when you're pretty well done having a good time. And since you're not getting paid for it, you have a real job when you're not volunteering.
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In the future, I foresee that the only way to get your name into the Library Pools for Library Jobs that Suck will be by first volunteering an ungodly number of hours in the place frst. Then they will bump you up to the clerk pool. Leave the ratrace while the rest of the rats are occupied with the race!!!

<em>The only thing dumber then working for free in a public library is working in a public librarian and NOT thinking you're working for free!!! ;)</em>
<br><br>
Working <b>IN</b> a public librarian? Now that's just gross.

Sleuthing? How very Nancy Drew. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I keep thinking this field needs a publication called "Rust Bowl Libraries". With feature articles about situations like THE LIBRARY DIARIES, and that secret firing in Wisconsin, only written in a peppy East Huronese tone that's totally out of sync with reality. M aybe a propaganda piece about what great things Gov. Blago has done for library service. Maybe another piece, in similar voice on "Pay-to-play" at the library. Spotlight some library board that has been nothing but trouble to a laundry list of former staff, who left via the revolving door, while said board members maintain their place via campaign donations/support to "people who matter".

In reference to library school, even if you attend a top tier LIS school like my wife did, the program is still not comparable to other master's degrees.

While I was getting an MA in history, my MLIS wife couldn't understand all the time that I spent doing research, reading, and writing papers. Then she came upon a syllabus for one of my classes and was shocked. 13 required textbooks with weekly papers due on each. A 14th book was also required based upon which week you lead the class discussion. Plus a 20-25 page final paper. and that was just one class.

Her MlIS project was also easy compared to mine. Have a bunch of people read three YA novels about vampires and take a survey. yes alot of work was involved, but she did everything in three months. My MA thesis developed from the class with 13 textbooks. If you inlcude that semester, my thesis took 12 months to complete with research trips to DC, National D-Day Museum, and conducting interviews with survivors. the only time I was not working on my thesis was when my oldest showed up.

As for my LIS experience, it was a joke. Heck my wife was surprised at some of the crap that we did and how some of the basic competencies expected from a librarian were NOT taught. Most of my library education came from discussions with her. Heck I had one teacher give us the same assignment week after week. I got frustrated with that class and started turning in the same exact paper week after week. She never noticed and I got an A in the class.

You need professionals with real library expereince teaching, not academics. The few teachers who were great were adjunct because they were in the field.
Privateer6

So you got Masters degrees in history and library science? Did you ever consider going to school for something that might actually be useful?

So, you all are saying that my job flipping burgers is much better than working as a librarian?

No, we're saying they both suk.

So which profession should I go into?

All jobs suk, Jim.

I don't think photographer for Playboy would be a bad job.

Mr Kat constantly denigrates the library profession so how exactly is he helping make things better?

I'm opening your eyes to the insanity that takes place on a daily basis in public libraries - and I'm not talking about the patrons!

This is the library that decreased the salary of it's Librarian I's by $10,000 while the director kept her full salary.

How about a Library Jobs that Suck column for this job:

Library Business Specialist, Marathon County Public Library, Wausau, Wisconsin

The Marathon County Public Library is seeking an energetic and highly detail oriented individual to manage the financial processes of the Library. Complete description, application and questionnaire posted at ___ or request application packet at: Marathon County Public Library, Betty Tellekson, 300 N. 1st Street, Wausau, WI 54403. Phone: 715-261-7215

That's why females shouldn't be directors.

""Complete description, application and questionnaire posted at ___ " I just had an idea. Since we have so many trolls and impostors here, and since this
system is $crewing around with librarian's salaries, why don't you all
turn in an application for this. The individual, however, would be fictitious. Let's make this your "Library Management 101" assignment
for Christmas; "Operation Grinch". :-/. Be imaginative in your contact information, and credentials/work history, but not too obvious that it's a hoax. $cr@w the B@$t@rd$.

Like we don't have better things to do with our lives.

I'm opening an All Dummies Library. I have the band Stryper booked for our opening day and Caterpillar is sponsoring the event. Availability for all postions are still available. If interested respond to this comment under the guise of anonymous.

“When I became a librarian, I didn't know what I was getting in to.”<BR>
Take today, for example. The bookkeeper and I got of to an early start, and in our going in-and-out process left the front door unlocked. A patron wandered in 20 minutes or so before we officially opened and sat down at one of the computers. Which was not turned on. I went over and told her that we were not yet open, but that she could stay and use to computer after I turned it on. <BR>
She looked at me, bleary eyed and smelling strongly of strong drink, and said, “You know the guy I always come in with?” <BR>
I nodded “Yes.”<BR>
Well I need to check his email because he was shot and killed last night.” <BR>
So we put our arms around each other and cried for a moment and then went on with our days.<BR>
“When I became a librarian, I didn't know what I was getting in to.”BR>
eeeeeek

What does that have to do with being a librarian?

I think it has something to do with our social mission of consoling the drunk and unfortunate.

Thanks LibChild. <BR>
Yes, it has to do with what a librarian does. In the real world. A life which is not always neatly shelved by Dewey. eeek

Great point Captrash as much as we groan we are AAA version of a bar taking care of many lost souls.

@librarybabe - it has absolutely nothing with being a librarian.
This could have happened in a retail store, an internet-cafe, or a counselor's office. It's just what *some* librarians use to justify their MLIS ;-)

But that anecdote has nothing to do with being a librarian. Tragic events happen all the time. She just happened to tell the story in a library.

So a crackhead got shot and the librarian heard about it. Please tell us more fascinating stories.

Well she, my first patron of the day, might have been in the right place to get a little solace (and the only public internet connection for many miles in all directions) but I, obviously, am in the wrong place. eek

Don't rail on a librarian because she was nice to some beleaguered patron. You people need to settle down.

It is Saturday and I'm at home having just read through this long long blog with my jaw dropping. When do you guys get time to read and write all this mixture of nonsense, cynicism and entertainment?
When I'm at work I work (in a special library) and sadly am not paid to participate in this frivolity. And this is only one sample. Perhaps you are all actually academics or unemployed, or otherwise have too much time on your hands. You should get out more.

Time is never a problem when it comes to Hobbies... ;)

Amazed Aussie; The weather here has been as bad as the economy,.
Is your national library assn. as out of touch with reality as ours?
They were recently in Washington begging for $100 million,
about the budget of the film "Australia", and certainly less than what
went into the pockets of some military contactors in Iraq for projects
never completed. It will probably never come through,
and if even a fraction did it would probably be siphoned off to some
library science diploma mill, likewise. They have this thing about a "librarian shortage",
but if indeed there is, there's not enough money to keep those already working hired,
with a decent wage and benifits. Somebody really needs to write FRANZ KAFKA'S GUIDE TO LIBRARY SCIENCE.

They stopped talking about a library shortage years ago. Stop obsessing and get a job.

It only takes a few minutes to make a comment. I can't see how that substantially interferes with getting work done. See, it only took me 2 minutes to read and under one minute to make a comment. Hardly a grand loss of valuable time.

Jim, are you the real Jim Rettig of ALA, I saw interviewed on MSNBC?

Yes

<i>If you couldn't find this information on your own, then you probably shouldn't be in the information field.</i>
<br>
<br>
Yeah, I guess I should leave it to the same pioneers who feel that you need to drop $20K to learn how to copy and paste stuff from OCLC in order to make about the same a year for such next-gen, cutting edge information wrangling! Or to print a spine label and apply a security strip.

"Don't rail on a librarian because she was nice...." <BR>
Although I have tried hard to get in touch with my feminine side, "he" is probably still more accurate.<BR>
Poster yoyoyo's lack of compassion for a small town tragedy is quite amazing.<BR>
Also, this - posting here - is my at-work-guilty-pleasure. I get no formal breaks in the day, so take them here in-between all the whatevers. eeeeeeek

<em>Poster yoyoyo's lack of compassion for a small town tragedy is quite amazing.</em>
<br><br>
What does the size of the town have to do with anything? Crackheads get killed everyday all over America. They've made bad decisions in their lives so they have to live (or die) with them.

Some of my best friends are crackheads. eeeeeeeek

Some crackheads are born with genetic predispositions to take drugs so we can't say that it's entirely their fault.

Genetic predispostion - typical liberal justification. eeeek

SIGH<BR>
well the last two posting attributed to me were not by me, but that's sort of okay. I have no problem folks believing that some of my best friends are crackheads - tho around here "heroin addicts" would be much more statistically probable. Also, being a liberal myself, I definitely would not accuse anyone else of making a "typical liberal justification."<BR>
However it might soon be time for the LJ to go to a sign-up-to-post reality. A "typical liberal" solution to get folks to at least fess up to their own stuff. Something non-Liberals are so often not really willing to do. Wonder why that might be? eeek

This is getting out of hand. That last post accusing imposters of posing as me was actually made by an imposter. If this blog doesn't come into the 21st century soon, I'm out of here! eeek

it would be fun to gt a peek at this poser's agenda and perhaps learn why s/he seemes intent on driving folks away from here? Let's start the rumor that it's from a rival library blog and see what turns up. eeeeeeeeek

I agree imposter. Although I doubt you're from another blog - you probably just don't have a life. eeeeeek

eeeeeeeek

It is Saturday and I'm at home having just read through this long long blog with my jaw dropping. When do you guys get time to read and write all this mixture of nonsense, cynicism and entertainment?" <br> <br>

I've read this late at night (I work most Saturdays) several times since it came to Library Journal for entertainment. I've changed my mind regarding the entertainment value. My thinking now is that the blog offers little, including the rather narrow point of view that is the Annoyed Librarian. It's not even particularly funny. So what is of value? What is AL doing to change what she sees as a dying profession in which she sees herself as superior? As for the commentary, moaning and groaning and bitching from people who are probably the last person you'd want to work with, or meet as that the poor unfortunate who walks into a public library door. <br> <br>

My library is swamped all the time and we are too busy meeting needs and figuring out how to meet future needs to worry about all this nonsense. I have better things to do. Goodbye.

We know you're still there. You just don't want to admit it.

Dean Bean commented:Jim, are you the real Jim Rettig of ALA, I saw interviewed on MSNBC?Jim Rettig commented:Yes . I wouldn't be surprised if a number of the trolls and impostors here aren't from ALA.

I wanted to be a librarian because it is a quiet job. I enjoy my world inside my head alone with my thoughts and I really enjoy the hush of the library - even when there are a few people about it still is fairly quiet. If a quiet job isn't to your liking, you can always go work at Borders and probably make more money.<br></br>The job I have now does have its noisy moments. And when those happen, I simply don my iPod earbuds and shut it all out. It's so much easier to perform research with classic rock in my head rather than listen to a co-worker rattle on about nothing I care to hear. Rude? OK. I'm good with that.<br></br>Fortunately in my special/academic library, we don't have the homeless, or kids, or crackheads, or any other of the sort. In fact, most of my patrons are so absorbed in their books or research, I fear disturbing THEM. That is the best quiet of all.<br></br>Then when the day is done, I climb on my Hog and rumble all the way home. I have the best of both worlds!

When I started in libraries there were so many good-looking girls employed that we speculated that they auditioned rather than interviewed. Additional benefit was that they were bright as well. So it has been throughout my careeer, a real plus for the working day.

Extra extra benefit was that I found one of my own at library school and married her, still together 37 years later.

When I started in libraries there were so many good-looking girls employed that we speculated that they auditioned rather than interviewed. Additional benefit was that they were bright as well. So it has been throughout my careeer, a real plus for the working day.

Extra extra benefit was that I found one of my own at library school and married her, still together 37 years later.

HarleyGrl is a great example of what is wrong with the profession.

<em>When I started in libraries there were so many good-looking girls employed </em>
<br><br>
My how things have changed!

This thread is going down the tubes via trolls and impostors. Reed needs to get ahead of the curve, or at least up to it, with their software. It wouldn't surprise me if the folks on East Huron are out to trash the site. Go figure....

AL, ready to call it quits?

Thanks for providing a perfect example imposter. It's losers like you that are bringing this blog down.

"Jim Rettig commented:
They stopped talking about a library shortage years ago. Stop obsessing and get a job." Who is "They"? This article is another sales pitch for jobs that $#ck, IF you can get one. And why is that, dearest Jim; because the market is flooded with degreed librarians? Jim you have career potential in used cars or aluminum siding sales.

No one has claimed a librarian shortage for years. It is just an urban legend. Find somebody else to blame for your failures in life.

Jim's right. And even if "they" were still claiming a librarian shortage, it's up to you to verify what you hear. eeeeeeeeek

You people from East Huron are full of more bull than your Governor. I would say that perhaps he has a shot at becoming a Prison Librarian, eventually, but he may have to stand in line. There are people on this thread who roll drunks and deal crack. I can feel it through my teeth. Urban legend huh? Prove it!

It ain't over till the Cat Lady sings....

"It ain't over till the Cat Lady sings...." Just wait till the next library staff meeting and I'll show you who's in charge. I AM the Regional Library!

I guess I have lucked out. I got my MLIS in August 2005, since then I have been a branch manager, I have created a library from scratch and I currently am a young adult librarian at a small municipal library...where my day is sometimes like the day in the life...for those of you considering...continue to consider this as a profession, I love it. I also went into knowing that it is a underpaid under appreciated position...but something I am passionate about. Good luck out there

Dr. Now honestly! How can what I have possibly said be what is wrong with the profession? When I was a child I wanted to be in the library because it was so quiet there. The problem with libraries today is that they are NOT quiet. And they are dying. I think the two go hand-in-hand: noise and the death of the public library. The ALA has turned the PL into a community center I simply can't stand. But keeping the sanctity of "a quiet place to research and study" can never be what's wrong with the profession. <br></br>Find somebody else to pick on you ninny. And then try to say something that makes you sound somewhat intelligent.

Librarygirl, as a fairly new professional do you have anything (advice or encouragement) to add to the Student Affairs blog section? Staci, whom I thought would make a wonderful librarian, has given up after searching for over year. Last spring I began commenting on the blog, hoping that people considering the profession would stumble on this student site, preferably before they committed to student loans. Like you, I love what I do and am in a lower level management position, but I actively discourage people from going to the profession because it is so difficult for new graduates to find work in a profession that has been over recruiting for a long time.

My advice is to go to trade school, and I'm not talking about library school. I mean another type of trade school that actually prepares you for getting a job.

HarleyGrl, the fact that libraries are not quiet is not the problem. The fact that you want them to be quiet is not the problem. The problem with the profession is the perception and perpetuation of the myth that librarians are mousey bookworms that are introverts. By listening to your iPod you are shutting out patrons thus not providing good customer service. By having a "shhhh!" type of environment you are telling people to stay away because only the initiated know how to navigate a library that is a "shhhh" type of library.
There should be quiet space in libraries, but that doesn't mean librarians need to be quiet. They should be extroverts that evangelize the library's offerings. I went through my whole undergrad experience not knowing what the college library had to offer because the librarians could not bother to let us know of the resources available to us (for work and pleasure alike). Part of it is my fault, but part of it is the librarians' fault. I learned through non-librarians the wonders that exist in the library AND how to conduct research in a library. By all means put your headphones on and shut out young minds that would love help, but they don't know it.

I didn't say I was shutting out patrons. Just blabbering co-workers when we're in the back. In my library, silence is golden and the only public I have to bother me are scientists and yummy doctors in scrubs that need my research assistance. It's a tough job, but somebody has to do it.

I didn't say I was shutting out patrons. Just blabbering co-workers when we're in the back. In my library, silence is golden and the only public I have to bother me are scientists and yummy doctors in scrubs that need my research assistance. It's a tough job, but somebody has to do it.

I didn't post the comment about trade school, but I did say that I am new to the profession and feeling fairly positive about my choice. Now, I will say that if you think you can get your MLIS and settle down where you've lived forever, you may not be so lucky. I would encourage those going into the profession to not be scared of moving...there are jobs out there, you have to seek them out. Now, having said that I plan to continue my education in case I can't rely on my MLIS. I would be happy to comment on the Student affairs section.

<i>They stopped talking about a library shortage years ago. Stop obsessing and get a job.</i>
<p>
Jim,<br>

It's important that we keep talking about the ALA's shortage myth until we all get jobs. </p> <p> The ALA made a huge mistake several years ago and we're still suffering as a result. It's important that we remind the ALA of their mistake every chance we get, so they don't ruin any more lives with their mistakes.
<p>
If we don't find jobs soon we'll have to find a way to punish the ALA big-wigs who caused this problem. They can't hide from us, even in retirement.

I have to concur with the above post. This is like expecting the public to excuse Bernie Madoff of his Ponzi scam. If certain people think it will just go away they may be VERY mistaken. This has seriously damaged the lives and careers of many who bought into the "shortage" story.

If you were naive enough to buy into the shortage myth, then you deserve to face the consequences of your ignorance.

Yeah, it's a great career if you can actually land a job without having to know someone. It's a great career if you didn't have to compete with 150 other navs in order to get a bottom of the barrel job.

You graduated from somewhere called Wayne State. What did you expect?

I went to a mediocre library school, hunkered down and gritted my teeth all the way through it. The faculty were old, moldy and completely ignorant as to what technological or people-skills were needed by those of us who were interested in going into medical or academic libraries. Many in my class were second careerists... and female.
I have loved being an academic librarian and take seriously the information needs of faculty and grad students. They only ask us stuff when they can't figure it out themselves, because they are research scientists first.

AL, your schtick grows old... too much negativism and lack of joy. Do you ever actually write about any positive aspect of being a librarian? I am too busy working to follow your threads.

I believe we were talking about Marcia Brady. Please try to stay focused.

For salary data, I believe what our colleagues have been supplying as their salaries through the ALA-APA Salary Survey: Librarian - Public and Academic. We ask directors and HR staff at public and academic libraries for the actual salaries of staff in 6 librarian positions, and ALA has done this for more than 20 years. If you're looking for a job, you should search a number of salary sources, including ALA-APA's, to find out what makes the most sense in your professional and geographical areas. JeNifer Grady, Director, ALA-APA.

That last post was an imposter. I do not support the data provided by ALA-APA. It is invalid and irrelevant. Jenifer Grady.

I have to say a big thanks to all of you who are honest about the so-called "librarian shortage" the many other obstacles with getting a professional librarian position. I am currently finishing a master's degree and applied to MILS programs to begin this fall and after reading these comments and the 5/1/05 Library Science Journal about the lack of entry level jobs, I am convinced I should not pursue an MILS. At some point, one needs to ask themselves is this "financially worth it"? I can make more money now with the type and level of education than if I complete an MILS and still be just as happy with my professional life (if not more) with the employment opportunities I have available to me. Thank you again for saving me time, energy, and money. Best of luck to all of you who have the courage to be honest about the state of the librarian profession!

RL, if I had to do it over again I wouldn't. Look at other options and consider yourself lucky. You could have landed yourself in heavy student debt. This business is going to have to clean up its act, before things may get better. I'm not holding my breath. I got a degree back in the 70's and there was all sorts of talk about "shortages" and "opportunity", etc.. I never saw it. The story about "shortages", and the field "openinging -up just around the corner", have been there for at least 30 years. About a thirds of ALA accredited programs folded in the 80's-90's because there were no real entry level jobs. It's been like a game of musical chairs in the interim. "recessions" have come and gone, 1990-92, 2001- , and now this. It could be the mother of them since the 30's. I hope not, but.... Maybe after this the field will HAVE to look more seriously at what it is and where, if anywhere, it's headed.

There are straight guys working in libraries?

There are straight guys working in libraries?

I wouldn't advise anyone to go into this profession at this point. I think we'll be around for a little while, but we are definitely not expanding. Most jobs are not even replaced anymore. When I started at my library we had 15 professional staff. Now we have 10 and are considered fully staffed. If I had to do it all over, I'd have gone into a medical field or some other science. As it is my salary does not pay enough for me to go back to school so I'm trapped. Oh well.

I have been looking for any public library job in the North Dallas area (I can't move) for over a year. I can't even get an interview for any jobs (even as a library assistant) let alone as a librarian. I would work at any library position p/t or f/t. I have an M.L.S. from an accredited institution, some experience, customer service skills, am very personable, flexible and I am in the youth services area (which was supposed to be a "high" demand area.) I know the economy is a big factor, but my 3 interviews stated I did not have enough experience. How can I get experience if I can't get hired at anything!?!?! Volunteering is not an option, because the library's are not interested. They want teens or have all the people they need. I have just wasted thousands of dollars and increased my student loans, all for NOTHING. I really wish I had know 4 years ago I wouldn't get a job, I would have never ever gone back to school, even though I have wanted to be a librarian since I graduated college 15 years ago. So, why am I posting? I would like the ALA to acknowledge this problem, and let people know that the jobs are not there - enter school at your own risk. At least know what you are up against. So, of course I think the whole library opportunities are not there and I am FRUSTRATED!!!

PN, I am sorry to hear that, but it doesn't surprise me. My system hasn't hired new people in over a year. None of the retirees are getting replaced. Maybe if you signed on as a sub you could get your foot in the door?

PN,

Texas is a really hard place to find a library job, let alone a librarian position. There are 3 library science schools and one that has students in every city and state so it is like have 10 library science schools here. There are so few new jobs and more firings and layoffs than ever.

Many jobs are now part-time and if you can even get one of these measly positions that pay nothing, the library schools consider it a success. What a joke! Hiring practices are extremely biased and discriminatory. I have noticed a trend of people hiring their friends over other candidates. I have also noticed more males getting the good jobs, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it is good to diversify, but it means some females have a lesser chance of getting work. I have heard comments such as "she is too young" and "we should really hire a guy" and "we need someone of color". My library recently interviewed a young woman, late 20's maybe. She was very polished, attractive and professional. I thought hiring her would be great and would add a professional and youthful spin to our department. But the other 50 something librarians (I am one too, but see the value of youth) wanted to go with a more traditional looking older librarian. It is a sad state of affairs when people are biased against age and attractive appearance. What other profession actually wants dumpy, frumpy people???? It is funny and sad at the same time. I think that in order to better market libraries, hiring managers should consider hiring people who are marketable, dress professionally and are outgoing. Maybe I am alone in my thoughts, but I think we actually need to change the appearance of librarianship rather than just talking about it.

I am thankful I even have a job and feel sorry for all of the recent grads and current students!!!!!

PN:

You are right. I am sorry I went to library school. You have to kiss a lot of @$ to get jobs, and take ridiculous amounts of classes and degrees after your MLS just to get an interview because you have "extra qualifications". What a waste! I would not recommend this for anyone. Should have gone to truck driving school.

@No Name --I hear ya. The pay increase of entering the library profession has not made up for the cost of uprooting my family because there weren't any local jobs, the student loan debt, or that very stressful first two years when I went from a university staff position I hated with good benefits to a part time librarian job with no benefits and a 60 mile a day commute. Things have settled down a bit, but I'm still in danger of being back in the poorhouse within the next couple years when my temp position ends. We're certainly not valued, and I sometimes find myself wondering what in the world it is I do, and for whom. I want to go to all current library students and tell them to flee the burning ship, sometimes. I often wish I'd have gone into a slightly more respected profession and often think of how I probably would have done something like law, if I'd have had the money and devoted time. I guess I'm not alone in feeling like I was a little gullable when looking into this profession. The occational intensely rewarding moment doesn't may warm the heart but it doesn't exactly pay the student loans.